I was waiting so that I could deal with a number at once, rather than putting all the comments on the guestbook. It makes things much easier this way. Sad to say, of course, the vast majority of the offended and sniffling Otherkin who have written entries in the guestbook have completely failed to get the point. Indeed, I think the majority of them, if not all, completely failed to read the William of Occam essay, which was the actual point, rather than the Mundane piece, which was more of a generalised dribbling. Still. Let us see what they have to say for themselves.
I should, for the record, point out that the vast majority of the Otherkin who come here have in fact done so because one teenager called Mystra, whom I have had contact with on a mailing list, complained about my site on another list. This is a being who claims to be thousands of years old, and yet finds herself forced to delete emails which contain "dirty words" because she finds them overtly offensive and they make her cry. Oh dear. They aren't even in her own language, if her state of Otherkin-ness is to be believed. But no matter. Make up your own minds.
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Guest: Souls of Many
Email:SoulSinger@dejanews.com I don't find anything wrong with what you say, although I disagree with you. Mainly I'm talking about "Mundane Existance"...As a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism, you'd be arguing with 40,000 members about their use of the term Mundane to mean "not in the Society". Due to unexplicable and unasked for overlaps between the SCA and the Otherkin/Pagan/Were/LARP etc. communities, these fringe communities have adopted our despicable use of this term. I can't always agree with my kindred about their use of such words in a derogatory fashion, I mys'elves have been the subject of teasing and outcasting, etc. but I personally do not feel superior to humankind, just different. That we use lables to say "those different than me" is a normal failing, and a result of upbringing and language. We, as a whole planet, love to put people in pigeonholes, and to use our Brother PTouch to put a fancy label on each one. Anything that does not fit gets tossed in the barrel labeled "Other". Those who make labels in innocence cannot be held responsible for those who use them to rank people, or to shun people, or to outcast people. I've been Otherkin for 15 years, a member of the SCA for about 13, and online for about as long...these terms are used both in a innocent and in a damning fashion...but such is the nature of all labels. |
Now, you see, that's just silly. I gave the dictionary definitions of "mundane" and I have to ask, if none of those connotations was being implied by the SCA, then why use that particular word? All other societies seem to be quite happy with "non-members". But that isn't good enough for you, is it? You have to show yourself as being something "special". Your use of language in the above paragraph says it all. You are not using language that is non-human, or "other", you are using language that is very much human, and is showing all the human traits of self-separation in the face of psychological alienation. Look at this sentence: "I mys'elves have been the subject of teasing and outcasting..."So has every victim of a bully since time immemorial, but they don't see the need to use the word "mys'elves". Everything you do you do in order to point out that you are different, special, "other". Even though the majority of Otherkin I have queried on this issue claim that their use of idiomatic American English is because they have to make sure that they are disguised from the mundanes lest they be attacked.
The use of labels is a human thing. It may well be that you use them as a result of upbringing and language, but I have to ask - if this isn't your birth language, if you are indeed "Other", with the memories of being an elf and all of those years of experience of being an elf, would it not suggest that you would show some sign of that in things other than this? I would expect your sense of perspective to be wholly different, for you to have such a different view of life that it was apparent no matter what your upbringing in this world.
But it doesn't happen, does it? You give yourselves silly names and make proclamations based on half remembered bits of "Lord of the Rings" and expect people to accept that you are in fact non-human. Read the William of Occam piece. You say you have been Otherkin for 15 years? What were you before that? Human? How did you change? Or did you just "recover memories"?
If you want to think of yourself as being special, different, and you wish to refer to those you think of as being merely human using derogatory terms (and that is not the nature of all labels), then you had better have something that is different and special to show for it. Otherwise you are living a life of half-truths and hypocrisy and you have no right to claim to be better than anyone else. And don't say it is just the actions of a few, either. You just said that your 40 000 members of the SCA do just that.
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Guest: Rebecca Just got done reading the "mundane" rant, and wanted to comment. I agree with you that the act of calling someone "mundane" in a holier-than-thou fashion is a good reason to get ticked off. But I also wanted to point out that the Otherkin is a group made up of individuals. Some of these individuals choose to say or do things that others find distasteful. Don't judge the whole group by the words or actions of some. There are those of us who do not feel that those who are not Otherkin are mundane. We just feel that they are Other: not low, bad, or boring, just different. Just as there are those of us who have never played RPG's, but have come to believe what we do without the divine guidance of WhiteWolf or TSR. |
Did I say I judged the whole group? I was despairing of a habit I have noticed within the Otherkin community. I can do that just as I can despair of homophobia amongst the white middle class without necessarily assuming that all white middle class people are homophobic. Can you honestly say that you have felt no sympathy or agreement for one of your fellow Otherkin when he has used the term "mundane" to refer to those who do not claim to be a non-human in a human body? Don't think I don't remember you either, or that I have not visited your site. I visited your site while I was still exploring the world of Otherkin mailing lists. Of course people in general are different from you. You live in a house with a bunch of other people who also think they are elves and who dress up as such. The use of the term mundane was one of the few regular foibles of those lists that really irritated me beyond any rational reasoning.
As for the White Wolf connection - well deary me. Just the other day a friend of mine had the decency and patience to post me a full run down of the Storyteller universe. You see, I have not ever played White Wolf, or Vampire, or any of the other games of that ilk. I'm more of a Shadowrun and Paranoia person. Can you imagine my surprise when I saw just how much of the stuff I have heard related on Otherkin lists was contained within the game synopsis? Do you know how much it made me laugh to see people using the White Wolf definitions and not paying any attention to the original meanings in the traditions from which White Wolf took the terms? As just one example, there are now folk openly describing themselves as Wendigos, when the original Wendigos were in fact demonic entities and they were killed on sight by the Native American peoples of the lands where, in the traditional mythos as opposed to the White Wolf scenarios, they were found. It was a spirit that feasted on human flesh - that was its main characteristic. The Otherkin claiming to be Wendigos (originally Windigo, from the Ojibwa wintiko - to paraphrase The Straight Dope, "I remember how to use a dictionary") do not eat human flesh, and seem to think that having an inner child who has furry ears and fangs is enough.
I even recall a glossary being posted to one list that included several just such definitions - including "glamyre", which may well have been a term taken from White Wolf, but is actually a bastardisation of the word "glamour" which is an archaic term deriving from the Middle English word "gramery", which means skill in grammar, and hence magic. What amuses me most of all is that so many of the denizens of these mailing lists show so little ability in spelling, never mind grammar. There might well be a significant portion of magic-oriented Otherkin these days who have not played White Wolf, but the ideas and terminology used by that game are being perpetuated as they are passed around within your little private communities and support groups - and you do like your support groups, don't you?
Here's another question for you then. If all your claims are valid, and you are happy in your selves that what you say has veracity, then why do you only allow Otherkin friendly people onto your mailing lists these days? Why are so many of you intolerant to pointed questions? I have come across only one or two of you who are willing to answer searching questions and persistent enquiry without assuming that a skeptical inquiry is a form of personal attack.
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Guest: Starteari Actually for the most part I AGGRE with you my fine feathered friend! Hippy pagan fluff bunnnies!! Sick of em! Otherkin getting all high and mighty!! Tired of it! And yes I am otherkin whats it to ya! *grins* Yes for the most part people who claim such heritage are a crock of poop! There are some who are valid and there are some who just are trying to make a name for themselfs desprate plea for attiontion me thinks! (Im just waiting for the day when otherkin start showing up on Jerry Springer) Most of the otherkin I know go through this stage where they get WAY into it to the point of fanatism. If they manage to live through it they do just fine... Living *gasp* normal lives with just a bit of eccentric tendices. Like me I got all high and mighty thinking I was like a lord of the element of air and crap like that... I grew out of that eventually... and my true nature found me... the crazy stuff is more of a plea or despratie attempt to answer "whats going on with me" now I just live day to day making ends meet and enjoying life. Hey I think I would have fun mailing you. Im up for a chalenge! |
Apart from the challenge of wading my way through the spelling and sentence construction, I don't actually have much to say about this entry, but I thought I would include it for the sake of completion. The idea of Otherkin showing up on Jerry Springer, or Heavens forfend, Rikki Lake or Esther is one that I have to admit I had not considered. Then again, the only ones I can imagine going on such programmes are the ones who are, as you say, fanatical about it. Such as the ones who claim to physically shapeshift into other forms. And, of course, then they might actually be asked to do something in front of an audience of people who might not necessarily offer whole-hearted support in order to prove their claims. Oh dear.
The way you say "manage to live through it" makes me wonder if there are those who somehow die because of their failure to accept that they just aren't the chosen children of the multiverse. If so, I would dearly like to know what it is that kills them. I could be even more obnoxious at this point, but I'm sure all you sensitive full empaths out there can just guess what I'm thinking.
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Guest: MadHare OK, I zhall zay zis onlie wunce. Ill-onus cronie doak lef'eti luui q'well makka dreen'l. You see at first they said I was not well. That I was upset, unbalanced. They said that really the only problem with me was my rejection of their ways. That if I listened to them and did what all good people do then I would be fine and the PAINS IN MY HEAD would go away. I was young and inoccent and I believed them. Years later when I got out of the pink room I realised that they were wrong. That my mother was in fact attempting to feed off of my soul. That my father had a evil entity suckling off his astral breast and whispering darkly things to him. So I met others who helped me remember my true identity, my trueSelf, SoulSelf. I remembered the wonder of the ancient trees and my days as a spear maker. I remembered tracking unicorns through the forest glades and the glory of mounting it's horn over my door. I remember the majickal sword called I'L'e'a'n'eeaet' whose name you have to be in dragon form to pronounce. This majickal sword which told me of the plight of the mundanes of a small blue world far far away and how it was my density to go to this planet and help them remember their unicorn hunting methods. So I am here and I have tried to fulfill my density but they will not listen, they only laugh. But I have found others who are like me but are unicorns! Finally I can teach by example. So I am going postal on unicorns to demonstrate the glory of the hunt. I'll send polaroids. |
Right.
Fine.
Whatever you say.
You do know what a unicorn's horn is for, don't you? I mean, as a unicorn hunter it must have occurred to you that there is a reason why unicorns have a penchant for virgins. Have you ever noticed that unicorn ears are slightly longer than the ears of a standard horse? I'm told that it's one helluva ride.
I'm still waiting for the polaroids. The anticipation is making my crotch itch.
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Guest: VyAdara Seriasan Is it proper and dignified to judge an entire group of people by the actions of a few?? Most Otherkin that I know of are not the way you accuse us of, and I believe i have met my fair share being one...(Elenari and Yyl'nectrose and proud of it :). The body I am currently inhabiting may be of human kind yet neither my soul nor my being is, as I am something that is considered a walk-in. I will give you the benefit of giving you my definition of the term, A walk-in is a being who has neither died on their homeworld, nor was reborn here. I have met Quite a few folks who have seperatly reconfirmed my memories, and many even who recognized me personnally from another world, and I remembered them too. So I have no doupt as to who and what I am, and my belief is not depenadant upon what others believe, it has been more than proven to me. I do realize that you have your own opinion and you are welcome to it, I just do not find it honorable what you did in the mundane essay. I also hope that you shall not take my words and twist them into something horrible, but if anyone wants to know the truth of the Kin please write to me at my Addy and I will be glad to talk to you. Des'tai and Namarie, Adara--- |
First of all I did not once claim to be dignified about anything. Secondly, just who are you to judge what is right and proper for anyone else? You say you are an elf! I had no need of your definition of the term "walk-in" - I have met my fair share of Otherkin as well, and I had no need to claim to be one to do so. Things are different now, of course. If you are not an Otherkin yourself or at least prepared to accept such things without question, it is difficult to get onto the Otherkin lists without lying. Unless you visit Sileniel's Grove, of course, where there is a simple click subscription to a Faekin (heh) community.
As to your statement about other people confirming your memories, it's ever so easily done. As an experiment, a friend of mine joined an Otherkin community as an Otherkin and made a few statements regarding his Awakening. Other 'kin leapt forward to confirm his statements, yelling the ever popular "me too!" and then making further suggestions which they built on to form a mutual mythology that had come from nothing but was seen to be truthful as they had each confirmed the other's memories. I need a little more convincing than for someone to say "I remembered this, and so did he". I need to know the circumstances, independently verified by an impartial observer (and I mean impartial), I need to know that there were no leading questions or statements. I would ideally like for two Otherkin who had not ever met another Otherkin to come up with the same stories, places, events etc., write them down, and then compare at a later date. This is how I work. When I work with my friends, we do things independently without discussing the relevant details, write it all down and then compare afterwards. The mind is exceptionally good at fitting things into place and turning them into memories. You may even be familiar with the Satanic Ritual Abuse myth. How do you think that gained such a foothold?
On the question of whether or not I did what was honourable, just exactly what was dishonourable about it? The fact that I have that opinion? The fact that I am willing to state that opinion in a public place? I think it is far more dishonourable for you to allow those using the term "mundane" in that fashion to continue to do so with impunity. Not once have I ever seen one Otherkin berate another for his use of that term, even when the connotations were made explicit. And you, Adara, were on the list when the "I love freak-the-mundane stories" comment was made. You didn't speak up, did you?
I have no need to twist your words into something horrible, and I also think it is dishonourable of you to assume that I would. Dishonourable and immature. Just how old is your elf spirit? There are humans of ages less than two decades who show more maturity than that. Your words and your attitudes speak for themselves, there is no need for me to do anything more than place them where they can be witnessed.
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Guest: Hugo Shepherd I've decided I don't like rants; ranting or ranters. I think it a negative exercise, that does nobody any good. I prefer a peaceful solution to an event, that was hostile. If we were at war, then that would be a different kettle of fish. I know too many arguments between the Scots and the English, arguments that died when the people who espoused them (from both sides), died and started pushing up daisies! Again, the Christian and the pagan factions who fight, are so short-sighted as to not see their own negativety. Can't they learn to rise above their own baseness, their own primitive demi-urge, and become an evolved species instead of a primeval slug! War begets war. There are no winners only loosers in a fight that turns the ling-covered hillsides into a blushing hillside of blood and gore. Who wants this? Certainly I don't! I would sooner know that my Scottish ancestor from Orkney died as a result of old age rather than a claymore in his rib cage, or an English musket ball through his skull. Death begets death and in the end, only the innocent bystander is drawn into the blood feud and pays the ultimate price for someone else's argument. So let's try and be happy and live life as the goddes would have us do. Okay? Hugo Shepherd - Webmaster to Wolfmoon. |
Well, Hugo, it's nice to hear from you again. Even though you have decided you don't like rants, ranting or ranters, which obviously means that you don't like me, as I produce rants when I'm ranting and am therefore a ranter. I disagree entirely that a rant is a negative exercise that does no one any good. Ranting certainly does me a lot of good and my rants often greatly amuse my friends, which can hardly be detrimental to them. I also think that you are mistaking ranting for arguments. Ranting is expounding at length in monologue form, preferably in an eloquent, intelligent and considered fashion, with or without the use of invective, about a topic of one's choice. An argument is when two sides in opposition enter into heated debate. A rant might induce an argument, although I would hope that any intelligent ranter would be able to maintain things at a level of debated disagreement and mutual discourse rather than allowing the situation to descend to verbal fisticuffs.
However, given that you don't seem to know what a demiurge is (look it up - it means creator of mankind), or, at least, seem to have no idea how to use it within a grammatical context that makes any sense, perhaps it is not surprising that you also seem to misunderstand the true purpose of a rant. Which has nothing to do with war, incidentally, in case you were wondering.
I would also take issue with the statement " So let's try and be happy and live life as the goddes would have us do." For one, skipping the misspelling, which is likely to be a typographical error, and ignoring the heart stopping concatenation of "try" with "and" (try takes the infinitive of the verb - one tries to do something), which Goddess? There is considerably more than one, and I don't think Sekmhet's or Kali's ideas of how we all should live are necessarily entirely concurrently compatible with those of Aphrodite or Hera. For another, there is no Goddess who has any great say in how I should live my life because I do not follow the path of any Goddess. If they want to influence my life, then they'd better talk to the Boss. That isn't disrespectful, I have the greatest respect for all the Goddesses, but my life path belongs to something else.
Still. Hope to see you on #pagan at some point in the future. Perhaps we can discuss it.